Про "цеховые" лыжи, Рассказ специалиста Опции

[Михалыч]

Здесь:
http://nastar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=359

[BIGFOOT]

Интересно. Это только у меня не открывается, или у всех?

[loto]

Нет, млин, слишком медленно я читаю... да и тонкостей не улавливаю А почитать-то хочется...

Долой жырных заграничных зайтсев из рунэту!

[Alf]

По поводу долгой загрузки - на этой страничке картинки весят 1.5М, но ещё наверное и сеть перегружена.

[Михалыч]

[АнтонА]

Михалыч, ничего не грузится, выдери текст сюда!

[loto]

[nick]

У меня загрузилось. Но картинки и правда очень долго лезли в тоненькие россейские интернетовские дырочки. Сделано под быстрый буржуйский и-нет.

[Михалыч]

Before you go out and buy your RACE SKIS for this season here is the definitive and unbiased article on RACING SKIS!



Disclaimer: I have been biased towards Rossignol for the reasons that are easy to understand. Rossignol has taken care of me for about a Century and they do happen to suit my skiing style and preferences. In this Article the Dr. and I went to Rennstall World Cup Ski Preparations and interviewed Bill “Lats” Latimer. While there happened to be lucky enough to catch Andy Buckley, A US Team Ski Technician there working on his racer's skis. We are simply reporting the FACTS per this interview.

While we would like to quote Andy directly, his stuff is so secret “we would have to kill you” but we have had his permission to show him working away as we talked. Behind him is a fraction of his US Women Team Members Resi Stiegler, Kalin Richardson skis waiting for his attention. Note; He works on multiple ski manufacture's product, the techs are assigned to the racers on the US Team, not by manufacturer.



So while there will be no quotes directly opined by him, he was there for our entire interview with Bill Latimer.

GREAT NEWS

We have been officially authorized to provide Rennstall ’s Race Stock Ski price list and their phone number. This IS one of the few shops where you can get the REAL thing at great prices. When buying out of state you have to pay shipping but NOT SALES TAX. I will supply their list of brands at the end. When ordering your RACE STOCK skis ask for Bill Latimer and you must tell him that Gary Dranow via the Nastar Forum has referred you.

THE TRUTH ABOUT RACE SKIS

There are race stock skis and then there are the skis that are provided to the World Cup Technicians and their racers. The lower the FIS points the more likely the skis are coming right out of the manufacturers “Skunk Works” facilities. As the FIS points go higher the skis they are on may be coming out of the exact same race room that the skis you can now buy from this limited amount of retailers.

Stating with the Rossignol Race Centers about 2 years ago there has been a movement where certain manufacturers started to supply “Race Room” skis to a select number of ski shops for the hard-core non-world cup racer. This practice has proliferated to some extent, however, there is still a very limited number of shops that can actually get the Race Room rather than the production “look-alike” ski for the recreational racer.

Why? Because these skis are NOT mass-produced. The detail in the manufacturing process is greater, takes longer and typically the skis have wood cores instead of the foam or other materials used inside of the production ski. The race ski is usually a laminate construction rather than a "Cap" construction. The top sheets may be similar to the same but what's inside is quite different.

As we walk into Rennstall you can tell this is a shop geared for the serious hard-core racer.



A no frills hole in the wall under a bar this, we have found out, is a must!

Bill Latimer, below, our resident expert just about to take us on the tour during the interview, notice the BIG RED EMPLOYEES ONLY (which infers Employees, Racers and those bearing gifts, usually exotic imported beer by the case are allowed behind the sign).



Lastly, if you do not find the requisite race tuning shop DOG, leave fast! Any ski shop worth its salt has a shop dog. This is a good rule of thumb (and really, we're not being facetious - after a brief survey of long-time racers, we haven't talked to anyone who has known a great tune shop that hasn't had a shop dog; without the dog, the shop ain't the real thing!).



Our first question to Bill was naive on its face;

Gary: "Bill, which Brand is the best of those you offer?"

Bill: "There is no such thing as a bad Race Stock Ski, they're all good, its just a matter of price points and a skier's stylistic preference. Some skiers ski well on Rossignol will others like Elan and so on. Nate [Schwing] has just moved to Elan and recently came back from Chile very high on this ski"



Gary: "Tell me more about the Elan line"

Bill: "Right now it is the hot ski going out our door".

Gary: "Why?"

Bill: "The price is right and they are a very solid performing ski".

At this point we discussed pricing. While Resi does not pay for her ski, you and I and most of the rank and file racers wishing to make the US "B" team, their USSA Team and especially those J1's chasing FIS points do pay for their skis.

There is very little if any profit in ski companies producing laminate, wood core skis so there is a limited number of these skis to go around. The secret is to find a unique shop like Rennstall that can get and has in stock the real deal.

Gary: "So the GS:11 Atomic that anybody can go down and buy from their local ski shop is not the same as these here?"



Bill: "By no means. The skins might look the same but, again, this is a wood core ski and the detail in manufacturing is different. These are essentially hand made skis, not rolling off an assembly line as a mass produced product".

Gary: "Is it true that the Atomic's come in with a 1 bottom bevel and 93 side bevel"

Bill: "For the few I have worked on so far this year, yeah"

Gary: "Uh, why?"

Bill: "Because the Atomic line is not a very forgiving ski and that is how most racers should ski it. I have mine at .7 and they are good but at .50 they eat me alive".

Gary: "And Rossi?"

Bill: "Well really it's ski by ski, your two GS skis here are set up pretty well from the factory to your specs, the bottoms are pretty flat so I can pull your .7, no problem. The Slalom boards need a grind from me to get them at .5 / 94. the structure on your GS boards are real good, no need to grind at this point, just throw them in the hot bag for a few days and you're ready to go"

The Skiodor/Dr. Liz quiver below getting ready for the season.



Gary: "And of course we'll check in a few weeks and see what we need unless the just don't feel right".

Bill, "Yep, that's how its done".

Gary: “Tell me a little bit about what hand tuning equipment you prefer here. You like the “Beast” stuff?”

Bill: “Ah, its alright I guess. We like the Sun Valley line, their bevels, files and so forth are top notch. They have a real good waxing table out as well” (I see Andy nodding in the background).

Here is the link for the Sun Valley line for your convenience

http://www.svst.com/

Gary: "So tell me about the Speed Skis"

Bill: "We have demand for the Atomic or the Rossignol, basically."



Gary: "Which is best"

Bill, "Again, its skier by skier, you hear different things from different skiers. I have a pair of the Rossignol 201 SG and 206 DH and they run fast and turn great, its simply a matter of the skier matching their technique to the right ski and the right tune. You ask Bode and he says he just skis better on the Atomic".

Gary: "Let's talk Plates, what's the deal?"

Bill, "Like all of these skis, they are all good when you are dealing with the race stock ski. The plate is important for more than the letting the ski bend under foot. This is what most people think the plate does, it does more. The plate offers a level of dampening but it also pushes back at the ski at the release creating more energy at the release".

Gary: "kinda of like the string on the bow?"

Bill: "Yep"

Gary: "Okay, last question. Can the rank and file Nastar Racer order your race stock skis from where ever?"

Bill: "You bet, just tell them to tell me you sent them "

We appreciate Bill taking the time to speak with us about what goes on there at Rennstall and wish we had more time to learn about tuning, which skis should be set at what bevels for different level skiers. Andy was fun to meet and we would have loved to hear more of his stories and experiences. That bench IS his traveling bench (I inquired where I could get one like that and he believes that Wintersteiger (by the way, all those big green machines and the main bench are all Wintersteiger, the choice of the best I’m told) may carry them, its the tool rack that is hard to find). Andy travels with the team the whole season. He has only three racers on his billet. From this one can extrapolate how much it costs to field an entire team for each country on the A and B circuits. SUPPORT THE US SKI TEAM!

To summarize what we heard.

1. You can't go and buy the real thing at your corner ski shop.
2. Find out what construction the WC Racer's have in their skis and make sure you have the same. For example, laminate with wood core. Make sure you have a plate on your ski.
3. Match your skiing style to the ski you are on. Different manufacturers' skis have different properties that are better for some and not for others.
4. Don't over pay for your skis. Manufacturers are providing Race Stock skis for racers as part of their marketing effort. They get the good skis out there to the best racers at each level, the more market penetration they get as their skis are seen up and down the better.
5. Know what bevel to run on your skis, don't start too aggressive! If you do what I do and get the best race stock ski I can get my hands on, this will be an aggressive ski. I'm a big, heavy and yeah, strong guy, I like a shallower base bevel than most at MY LEVEL. I can handle it. But when I start too aggressive and my skis are grabbing I will detune the tips real quick. Then if that doesn't do it I will bring up my base bevel .20 at a time until I like how the ski releases. The side bevel is more of condition thing. If you ski on ice, go for more, soft snow, go for less. If you're not sure, 93 is a real good start.

So that’s it. They are all good. Will every ski work for you, probably not. Can you go out and buy the real thing at your local ski shop, probably not and most definitely not at your mass marketer.

Your contact to buy real race stock Elan, Volkl, Rossignol and Atomic is:

Bill “Lats” Latimer at (435) 649-1833 with Jan’s/Rennstall World Cup Ski Preparations and here is there current price list, this time it is no secret!

GS/SG/DH

Atomic GS:11 $669.95
Rossi 9X WC $569.95
Volkl P60 GS $539.95
Elan GSX $479.95
Rossi DH $619.95
Rossi SG RE $619.95
Rossi SG RK $569.95
Rossi RPM WC $559.95
Atomic SG $669.95

SL

Atomic SL:11 $669.95
Volkl P60 SC $539.95
Rossi 9S WC $569.95
Elan SLX $479.95
_________________
Veni, vidi, vinci!

[Михалыч]

Все картинки не буду выкладывать - нет времени сжимать. Вот одна из картинок:

Прикрепленные изображения

 

[АнтонА]

пасиб хорошая статья и ценник правильный!

Я окончательно убедился, что лыжа должна стоить 400-450 евробаксов :-)))

[DINAMYC]

Не, открывается все просто на раз...
Картиночки очень пондравились!
Да, Михалыч!
А можно для не продвинутиых- чаго тама такие подписи под картинками длинные???

[loto]

Михалыч, ты будь человеком, а? Ты думаш я один тут такой убогий, што половины слов не знаю? Я за всех убогих прошу
Весь ливер не переводи... переведи только самый цымус - из за чего ты ссылку на статью дал. Чё там таково самого интересного было сказано?

[Larson]

Вкратце:
1. Цеховую лыжу (ЦЛ) не купишь в лабазе на углу.
2. ЦЛ делаются вручную, сендвич, а не кэп, внутри дерево и пр.пр. (что мы и так знаем)
3. ЦЛ всех брэндов хороши. Выбирай на вкус.
4. Пластины - это круто.
5. Дешево ЦЛ можно купить в описываемом ски-сервисе Rennstall.
6. В правильном ски-сервисе обязательно должна быть собака. Ски-сервис без собаки - ацтой.
7. Канты некоторых ЦЛ заточены на общеупотребимые в мире реальных спортивных перцев углы (например 1 градус снизу, 93 сбоку), но для около-спортивных перцев или, как бы выразился AntonA, недоперцев, это может оказаться слишком круто (включая самих мужиков из этого сервиса) . Поэтому, недоперцы, перетачивайте канты под собственные ограниченные пока возможности.

Честно говоря, ничего нового, кроме сервисной собаки, я из этого текста не узнала. Ликбез в сочетании с рекламой.

[Alf]

[DINAMYC]

To Larson>>>
За краткое содержание- спасибо. Правда увидел его уже после прочтения в Гадюкино в баньке вечером.

Отдельное спасибо SARу, который выступал в виде продвинутого переводчика.

Только не совсем я понял на счет кэп-сендвич: в углу стоял цеховой АТОМИК явно кеповой конструкции. Да и на кубке народ на слаломе ехал точно на "трубах".
И ещё. Как опять-же я понял Реинсталл получает комплекты для сборки лыж- типа "зробь сам". И робят сами... Или я ошибаюсь?

[SAR]

В обчем провели мы вечерком 7 наебря в Гадюкино семинар по поводу сей статейки.
Я для себя сделал вывод с аналогиями:
1)можно долго ходить по магазинам ГОТОВОЙ ОДЕЖДЫ, смотреть фасоны, расцветки, мерять и в конце концов купить себе костюм, или, в данном случае конвеерные лыжи "в магазине за углом"
2) а можно пойти и купить себе костюм, пошитый индивидуально, но по чужой мерке, пусть это и мерка крутого перца. Ходить в этом костюме, тешиться тем, что фасон, фактура материала фурнитура и происхождение костюма такое же как у КРУТОГО ПЕРЦА.
Недостатки кроя списать на моду или заниматься подгонкой своей фигуры под костюм, щоп мешком не висел - Это как купить спортцех.

[Толстый]

Серёга, аналогия интересная, но не совсем подходящая ибо ИМХО: если проводить аналогию с одеждой, то в лабазине готовой одежды есть только один фасон (если мы говорим о топ моделях "типа спортивных" дров), который различается только по росту и ВСЁ! Так же и второй случай - там тоже различия тока в росте, а фасон один! Ну, вот разве что ещё у разных брэндов немножко разные лекала, ну дык ить и у спортцеха тоже лекала немножко разняться!